The Golf Course, Again
I have heard it said:
My kids don’t play baseball. Why should I pay taxes to help maintain the ball fields?
I never go to the coliseum, why am I paying for that?
Why do we spend so much on the airport? I never fly on those small planes.
Even, my kids don’t attend public school anymore and I resent all those taxes.
Now, I don’t play golf and never will, just let the course go back to pasture.
Even when someone is generous enough to donate $600,000 to maintain it, there is an attitude that the county will just waste all that money.
Shouldn’t we be saying, “What a great opportunity to keep an asset in Snyder”
“An asset which will provide entertainment and recreation for the community and which will help attract newcomers.”
“We can now make this course the best nine hole course in the state.”
“Let’s make it so good that people will travel far and wide to play on it.”
If Snyder is to grow and prosper that has to be our attitude.
Instead of expecting the worst, why not create the best?
Yes, there is another nine hole course at the college, but we are competing for population with communities that boast 18 hole golf courses.
We have a window of opportunity to prepare Snyder for the days when the oil patch slows down.
But we can’t do it unless we work together and create an energized community that attracts people to it.
Otherwise, the old West Texas sun and wind will only too willingly dry us up and blow us away.
My kids don’t play baseball. Why should I pay taxes to help maintain the ball fields?
I never go to the coliseum, why am I paying for that?
Why do we spend so much on the airport? I never fly on those small planes.
Even, my kids don’t attend public school anymore and I resent all those taxes.
Now, I don’t play golf and never will, just let the course go back to pasture.
Even when someone is generous enough to donate $600,000 to maintain it, there is an attitude that the county will just waste all that money.
Shouldn’t we be saying, “What a great opportunity to keep an asset in Snyder”
“An asset which will provide entertainment and recreation for the community and which will help attract newcomers.”
“We can now make this course the best nine hole course in the state.”
“Let’s make it so good that people will travel far and wide to play on it.”
If Snyder is to grow and prosper that has to be our attitude.
Instead of expecting the worst, why not create the best?
Yes, there is another nine hole course at the college, but we are competing for population with communities that boast 18 hole golf courses.
We have a window of opportunity to prepare Snyder for the days when the oil patch slows down.
But we can’t do it unless we work together and create an energized community that attracts people to it.
Otherwise, the old West Texas sun and wind will only too willingly dry us up and blow us away.
posted by SnyderTexas.net at 5:55 AM
51 Comments:
You can go to a knife fight with a great attitude and no knife, and if you are lucky, you will come home bleeding and not in a body bag.
Have you ever noticed that a great attitude seldom travels alone. It is normally accompied by realistic expectations and the tools to successfully reach the destination.
Try going into a bank and borrowing a significant amount of money simply because you have a wonderful idea and attitude. You may very well be able to borrow the money, but I promise you that you better have a very well prepared and viable business plan.
We should expect no less from our elected officals who ultimately have the responsibility of putting the County into the golf course business.
If they are successful in this venture, there are numerous other ventures that would undoubtly enhance the lifestyle of Scurry County residents and visitors. They could start with a fine Italian restaurant. We do not have one of those and I am concerned that this could be determental to our future growth.
On the other hand, you can go to battle with the biggest knife in the fight scared to death, thinking you’re gonna get beat and you probably will end up in a body bag.
I don't think our Snyder High football coach tells our guys just before we play Sweetwater, "You are bunch of losers. You don't have a chance to win this game. It's hardly worth trying. Let's just give up."
If someone gives you $600,000 to run a course that is already in the black, why wouldn't you have a realistic expectation of succeeding.
However, with a negative, nothing ever works out attitude, you probably will fail.
This is not to say that one doesn't need a business plan and tight oversight to ensure the money is handled responsibly.
But why does one assume it can't be done?
It seems to me that the responsibility of our elected officials is to take advantage of opportunities that fall in their laps, not listen to professional naysayers.
Hopefully other ventures will come our way that will enhance the quality of life in Snyder and hopefully we will have people ready to implement them, even an Italian restaurant.
ATTENTION---All concerned tax-paying residents of
Scurry County...Do Not Question The Actions of THE INNER CIRCLE...You will be labled a PROFESSIONAL NASAYER with a negative attitude.
Seriously, I do respect the tremendous responsibility that elected officals have in doing their job.
I am acquainted with and have worked some very successful people from all over the country. They all stressed the importance of a viable business plan and the tools to implement the plan.
Is it asking too much for the commissioners court to provide more specifics to the public concerning this transaction? There has to be more avaliable than " It will enhance the quality of life in Snyder"
Here is to the POWER OF POSITIVE THINKING.
Yes, I am PROFESSIONAL NAYSAYER (actually, I am an EDUCATED REALIST). I must apologize to the fine folks of Scurry County for my feeble attempt to encourage them to THINK. It's O.K. to jump off a cliff into the creek. In fact, it can be quite rewarding and refreshing, particuliarly if there is water in the creek and it is deep enough. Some degree of proficiency in swimming is also highly recommended.
MORAL of the STORY: LOOK BEFORE YOU LEAP.
I’m not sure what you mean by “Elect”.
If that means someone who wants Snyder to compete effectively with other communities in attracting businesses and population, then I would definitely want to be included in that group.
It just seems to me that there are those who object on principle to any new initiative by our county government no matter what it is.
And they always say its going cost the taxpayers too much money and our officials are not up to the job.
If one tries to make the point that enhancing the lifestyle opportunities in Snyder is important or that we must have a positive attitude, then that is ridiculed with such remarks as he should open an Italian restaurant.
That is what I call a professional naysayer. Someone whose first reaction is it won’t work and there is no sense in trying anything new and you’re a fool for suggesting it.
However, I realize that there are legitimate concerns and people want to make sure that our officials are checking things out thoroughly.
I assume that is the attitude of those writing on this forum.
I also assume that people writing here realize that Snyder is in a mini boom right now, which will eventually end.
We need to have something in place so that we don’t whither away.
We all have to work together on this.
We have a fine golf course. Someone is very generously willing to give the county $600,000 to operate, enhance and maintain it.
I think our county officials can make this work.
In fact they should be thinking in terms of making it the best nine hole course in the area.
Why should we assume that it will fail and all the money will be eaten away.
They have already postponed voting on it several times in order to be sure this is what they want to do.
I say both sides avoid name calling and work together to keep Snyder moving in the right direction.
Sorry, in my previous post I used the term "Elect" rather than "Inner Circle", both of which imply the same thing.
As I said, I am not sure exactly who this refers to.
My view is that a frank exchange of ideas is beneficial as long as it doesn't get personal or into name calling.
I thing we need to start with the assumtion that each person from their own viewpoint has the best interest of the community at heart and stick to that assumtion until it is clearly proved otherwise.
This is a NO BRAINER...Do the DEAL, put the money in the bank, and then lease it to someone locally who wants to be in the golf course business. It would be a wonderful opportunity for someone. A valuable community asset could continue to operate without county government involvement. Seems like a win-win solution to me.
Just for practical purposes, our great high school golf teams need the country club course.
If that course goes under and everyone has to crowd on the WTC course it is going to hurt the team.
There are many reasons to make sure we keep the course.
That is just one and I don't even play golf.
I don't understand some people. Why do they always say no?
If the county can't take $600,000 and run a golf course, something's wrong.
Get the deal done commissioners before Mr. Talbot changes his mind.
Patterson stock is one the rise. What a generouse donation by Patterson to the community. I agree with some of the others about taking the money and making it a great course. People here can use it and people will come from all around to play on it. Some of them might even move here.
I don't play golf and I'm not rich but I see a need for a golf course in Snyder. Both of the courses are only nine holes. Together, we have an 18 hole course like some of the surrounding communities. Look at our baseball fields and all the tournaments that are played in Snyder because of them. If we can improve the country club course and combined with the WTC course, we might bring people here like the baseball fields do. Also I agree our high school teams need a nice place to play. Let's think positive. A positive attitude does make a difference.
Sure would be nice to have some FACTS concerning this issue. As expected, public sentiment runs from the sublime to the absurd.
Politics has taught us that DEALS can be done and FACTS presented later. I certainly hope that this doesn't happen in this instance.
Is this DEAL just for the golf course or for the entire Country Club complex?
Water is vital to the operation of any golf course. What is the present and projected status of the water supply and the condition of the irrigation system?
Golf course maintainence equiptment is specialized and expensive. What is condition of present equiptment and expected replacement time?
What, if any, capital expenditures will will be necessary in the short term?
What are staffing requirements and projected costs?
What has been the annual number of paid rounds of golf for the previous five years. Do these numbers indicate increase or decline?
These are just a few of the many questions that a golf course management company would ask about this property?
Hopefully, the facts would support the golf course operation as at least a break-even proposition.
In reality, the golf course will never be the finest in the state that will entice a large number of people to drive from far and wide to play. I'm sorry, but it's just not going to happen; however, the large cash donation will go a long way in providing needed improvements.
I am sure that if this DEAL doesn't get done, Western Texas College would welcome the pleasant problem of a CROWDED golf course.
TRIVIA 101...
Question: Things only found in West Texas?
Answer: Multiple Valuable Community Assets...All under utilized...All subsidised by County Goverment.
I don't understand why mr. tate is against the golf course, when he is promoting retirement to snyder thru the management of the golden terrace retirement facility..isn't golf part of the golden years if we choose
For all you people out there who are so eager to SEIZE THE OPPORTUNITY, could one of you inform LARRY THE CABLE GUY about this issue. The potential comedic material is unlimited and Scurry County could get some much needed national exposure.
And please do this before Mr. Talbot changes his mind.
SOUNDS LIKE A GOOD DEAL. I'D JUST MAKE SURE THE COMMISSIONER'S COURT WAS OPEN AND ACCOUNTABLE. A LITTLE MORE CHECKS AND BALANCES THERE AND THE DEAL COULD BE GREAT.
One of the opposing posts make some good points about things for the commissioners to look for. I have actually talked to one of the commissioners and I was impressed with how much information they had gathered. I believe they are looking into this to make sure they make a correct decision.
I wonder if the person opposing this has set down with the commissioners and discussed it with them in a spirit of finding the best solution for the community.
How can this person be sure that we can't make the country club one of the best courses in Texas. Certainly it won't happen with a negative attitude. Certainly if I say it won't happen and don't try, it will asolutely not occur. It would be a self fulfilling prophesy.
It is so much easier to criticize and tear down than it is to create and build up.
And to ridicule the efforts of those who want Snyder to move forward.
Some people are just afraid of change and think of their own pocket book instead of the good of the community. I would hate to lose the golf course. I don't think that would help us.
I say let the golf course go back to pasture. I don't play golf and why should I pay for those that do.
In two years all that money will be gone and I don't want to pay no more taxes.
If our community works together we can accomplish great things. Yes we need to look before we leap, but at some point in time we have to leap forward or fall backward.
A commmunity never says the same for long.
I do think we need to seize the moment and give ourselves a chance to attract businesses for the day the oil runs out.
Thank you Mr. Talbot.
Holy Moly. At least this place is alive. I was beginning to think this was a town of corpses.
Gripe gripe gripe
Gripe gripe gripe
It can't be done, it can't be done.
Let's be like the little red fire engine.
I think I can, I think I can, I think I can.
Choo choo
Asking questions is a probing method for obtaining information. Information that will be used to make decisions. Probing is a multi-tiered process, normally starting with general or broad-based questions and becoming more specific as you proceed. By gathering information, at some point we are comfortable in making our decision. Normally, the more time and information that we have, the more successful we will be in the decision making process.
People with a tremendous amount of expertise in a given field can make quicker decisions with less information than the average person can.
Our Commissioners Court does not have a tremendous amount of expertise in the golf course industry or for that matter long-range business planning. Do not mis-interpret this as a negative. It is simply fact.
Having said all of this, I think it is simply COMMON SENSE for the Commissioners to take the appropriate amount of time, analize the gathered information and make an INFORMED DECISION.
We have all heard the expression "USE YOUR HEAD". Well, now might be a good time to do that. Some in the community will not like or perhaps even understand whichever decision you make, but I will guarantee the vast majority will SUPPORT an INFORMED DECISION.
Now to comment on HAVING THE FINEST GOLF COURSE IN THE STATE: Some people hear what they want to hear or in this case read what they want to read. I never said that we couldn't have the finest golf course in the state. I said "I'm sorry, it's just not going to happen". $600,000 would not pay the consulting fees and what IDIOT would invest the amount of money neccessary to construct the FINEST GOLF COURSE IN THE STATE and on his worst day consider putting it in Snyder,Texas. SORRY, YOU REALLY LEFT YOURSELF OPEN FOR THAT ONE!!!
Hey ENGINEER...I would like to be like a Little Red Fire Engine, but I would prefer to be like the one that said "I KNOW I CAN...I KNOW I CAN...I KNOW I CAN"
And to that good ole' boy who said "PIGS CAN FLY" and "MONEY GROWS ON TREES" my response would be "IT CAN'T BE DONE" "IT CAN'T BE DONE"
Hang In There, and hopefully one of the days you'll figure out that some of those story books are FICTIONAL.
By any chance is your Engineering Degree from A&M? Just kidding, I love the AGGIES.
Mr CAPITALIZATION MAN man. I think you showed your true colors by implying that we here in Snyder are too stupid or incompetent to make the country club the best nine hole golf course in Texas. You say this can only be done by paying thousands of dollars to "consultants".
With a little creativity there are many ways we might get high quality help at a reasonable price starting with our fine Golf and Landscape Management Department at WTC.
It's a good thing you are not in a leadership position in the county or we would soon be reduced to a population of a few old codgers spitting tobacco at the hitching post.
Not that we Aggies don't love tobacco.
I'm a tabacco spitting codger and I don't want to be the only one left here when the oil field plays out
What's a codger. Sounds like some kind of animal.
Hey CODGER...look on the bright side. when the oil field plays out, you won't have any trouble getting a tee time on one of the finest nine hole golf courses in scurry county.
CAPITALIZATION MAN.
Instead of ridiculing attempts to create the best, you should be demanding that our county officials set their sights high.
You should run for commissioner with the slogan.
SNYDER, THE LITTLE TOWN THAT CAN'T.
I think it would be wise to stick to the core issues of the proposed transaction.
This thing either makes financial sense or it doesn't. It is not rocket science to take a look at the numbers {past-present-and projected} and make an accountable decision. Those numbers will precipitate a NO-MARGINAL-or YES position.
Even if the numbers come up MARGINAL, there can still be justifible public support to proceed. Even I [PROFESSIONAL NAYSAYER and MR. CAPITALIZATION] have a vested interest in wanting Scurrry County to continue to prosper and grow.
Remember, positive-progressive attitudes are free and everyone should have those. Bad decisions can be expensive and most people do not want to spend their money that way.
I am not naieve enough to think that there won't be some politics and public sentiment involved, but I do hope that enough facts surface to support whatever decision they make.
I know that this may be an unusual experience for hopefully just a few of you, but THINK about this:
What kind of person can be RIDICULED by the TRUTH?
It is not my intention to ridicule any person or position with an UNTRUTH.
If you feel ridiculed, perhaps you also feel DEFENSIVE and I suggest that you spend some time seeking and understanding the above question.
Hey ENGINEER...
I think you have come up with a plan that just might work and I am willing to help you.
You come up with a couple of boatloads of that HIGH QUALITY HELP AT A REASONABLE PRICE and I'll convince the commissioners court to begin dredging operations on Deep Creek so we can get them up here. You and I CAN DO THIS. Remember, think positive...be creative...and money is no object.
I can see the statewide billboards now: ASSET GOLF RESORT built by AGGIE ENGINEER and CAPITALIZATION MAN
TWO OLD CODGERS STANDING AT THE HITCHING SPITTING TOBACCO:
One says "Their ridiculing me for being an IDIOT"
The other one says "Their not ridiculing you for being an IDIOT. Their ridiculing you for ACTING LIKE A IDIOT"
LONG TIME SNYDER RESIDENT:
I don't think anyone should run for any elected position on a SLOGAN. ADEQUATE QUALIFICATIONS and a REASONABLE PLATFORM would be a sound foundation for any campaign.
I am not suggesting that our elected officials {Federal, State, and Local} are not qualified.
Sometimes I do have legitimate concerns of not only what they are doing, but how effectively and efficiently that they do it.
This issue of the golf course is a concern and I feel that the financial impact should be the primary [note that I did not say ONLY] consideration both long and short term.
This is an investment in the future. I do not know how you view your financial portfolio, but as a native Snyderite, I prefer a secure position with a reasonable return. This positions me to more effectively and efficiently manage my growth. I realize that this isn't the only approach to use, but it has worked and is working for me.
If the county commissioners will utilize their management and financial tools, they really CAN'T MAKE A BAD DECISION because this issue really isn't that complex.
Now, PLEASING ALL OF THE PEOPLE...that is a different story, and the primary reason that I probably would never seek that office.
If the people of Scurry County really need something that is the Best In The State, while the economy is still good, lets promote the fact that we have the most EFFECTIVE and EFFICIENT CITY and COUNTY GOVERNMENT in the Great State of Texas. And, oh by the way, we also rank right up there with the best of them in EDUCATION, HEALTH CARE, and EMERGENCY SERVICES.
I think all you people are on drugs. If I was that concerned bout whats gonna happen when tha oil goes bust, I'd be down there beating on the door of the DCOS or trying to contact that fella in Austin that the city is paying to lobby in your best interest. Surely they got somekind of news for you that will ease your concerns. Looks like tha police or tha sheriff could do something bout them drugs.
PROFESSIONAL NAYSAYER
Even if the commissioners are as dumb as you think they are and even if they adhere to your philosophy of mediocrity for the community, they could still maintain the course as is for many years on $600,000.
Then if your theory is correct and the money is mishandled and disappears, they could just sell the course.
This deal is a no brainer.
Hey OBSERVER
Why is it when one points out the fact that the commissioners court has limited or no experience in the golf course industry, you interperate that as THE COMMISSIONERS ARE DUMB?
Why is it when one points out the importance of FISCAL RESPONSIBILITY, you interperate that as MEDIOCRITY FOR THE COMMUNITY?
Why is it that when the county attorney tell the commissioners court that the $600,000 cannot be legally designated for maintaining the golf course only, you interperate that as THE MONEY WILL BE MISHANDLED AND DISAPPEAR.
Most people today have an adequate proficiency in READING, but I see lots of room for growth in the area of COMPREHENSION and UNDERSTANDING.
This issue is a NO BRAINER,no pun intended.
NAYSAYER
If the commissioners have no experience in golf course management, why assume they won’t talk to those who do and make a sound decision.
Why can’t the golf course become one of the finest nine hole courses in the state? If we don’t try to make it the best then it will certainly be mediocre.
The money can be marked for the golf course and although the commissioners could use it for other things, they are still responsible to the voters if they do.
No one is saying don’t look at all sides of the issue before making a decision.
No one is saying don’t examine the economics.
I don’t see a lack of fiscal responsibility.
In fact, I would say that with a deal like this, it would be fiscally irresponsible not to do it.
It’s a no brainer.
I dont use the hospital...but I do pay taxes. Never had a house fire, but I realy like having fire stations.
Anyways, if the County takes the course I would like to know how much our taxes will go up based on that action.
I do know that the course is in bad shape, push up greens, the irrigation is in need of repair, and most of the equipment should have been replaced a decade ago if not sooner.
I also know that if the County takes it over, that there will be no quick fixes to get the course into good shape. Mother Nature doesnt like to be rushed. Those who do play on it will complain about needed fixes and then some of them will complain because someone is fixing them and interfering with their play. It will take time to make it a better place to play.
It will take a qualified person to run the course and actually make a hand at it. Most folks with the qualifications to do so can make more money doing the same somewhere else. They will most likely have help somewhere else as well.
If we take it and get the right person running it, it might even generate money for the County. Most golfers that I know and have played with like to play on different courses. With the price of gasoline steadily going up, having two places to play localy might save some of the shoestring players more variety.
We may be damned if we do, but for certain we are damned if we dont at least give it a try.
Hey, OBSERVER
I hope you and the other fine folks of Scurry County will read and respond to the fact that much of what I have written has been done in the context of encouraging people to THINK.
Know What You Are Getting...
Know What To Do With It...
Don't Be Surprised At What It Cost You To Keep It After You Get It...
I was told by a person close to the donor group that if Mr. Talbot wanted this DEAL done, then it WILL BE DONE.
Wake up and smell the flowers. The people who own and operate that golf course know better than anyone what they are faced with out there and they want someone else to take the responsibility for its continued operation.
You may get away with p______ down my back, but please don't insult me by telling me that its raining.
No offense to Mr Talbot. The Country Club may consder forming a foundation and run the golf course off of donations and fees. It will be better run with a foundation board than County Commisioners who do not know how to run a golf course or care how to learn. I think the commisioners have proven that they do not have the know how to run a business. Let someone who actually cares about the golf course run it, not a bunch of bureaucrats.
You know it might be a SCAM when...
It starts with "HAVE I GOT A DEAL FOR YOU"
When you "THINK you are GETTING SOMETHING for NOTHING"
Little boy said "But, Grandpa, how do I make good decisions when it comes to things like this?"
Grandpa said "Use COMMON SENSE, it works everytime".
Message to Commissioners Court...
It does not make any difference where you are on the intellectual ladder or how professionally you may or may not conduct your business...IT WORKS EVERYTIME.
A word of encouragement to our much maligned elected/appointed officials-
"It is not the critic who counts, not the man who points out how the strong man stumbled, or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs and comes short again and again, who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, and spends himself in a worthy cause; who at best, knows the triumph of high achievement; and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat."
We may not always agree with you, but we appreciate what you are trying to do.
The validity of what T. Roosevelt had to say is unquestionable and in the context of what was written is inspiring.
The focal point of that quote is a MAN WHO SPENDS HIMSELF IN A WORTHY CAUSE.
My question remains...Is the golf course issue a WORTHY CAUSE?
If it is, then you will have tremendous support.
If it isn't, then you should expect justified opposition.
I may not always agree with you, but if you conduct yourself in a civil manner, I will always respectfully appreciate your efforts.
Service to the community is their worthy cause. Earnest people seeking to maximize our limited resources to make this community an attractive, appealing place to live for future generations and prospective newcomers.
Let's get on with the golf course deal. It will not benefit everyone but it is an attraction for businesses wanting to locate here, it provides our school kids and community members a place to play and practice, and if upgraded could bring people to Snyder to use the course.
How often do you get $600,000 in seed money?
Mr. Talbot has very generously offered to help make this happen. Mr. Talbot made his money the old fashioned way. He earned it. But if he had all the influence some people claim he does, the golf deal would already be done.
Instead of criticizing him for offering to help the golf course, we should thank him and take him up on this offer.
As others have said.
This is a no brainer.
If the Snyder Country Club golf course is a viable enity that is seeking continued operation, then the private sector will identify it as such and make it happen.
It is an accepted fact that the private sector is more successful in providing goods and services than the government.
Why are we asking our local government to get into the golf course business?
It is neither a vital neccessity or in need of regulation.
To the private sector, an opportunity has been identified. It will be interesting to see who steps forward, quickly seizes the moment, and makes this happen.
How many of you self-professed entrepenuers and visionaries are standing around saying " I sure want this, but I want someone else to do it"?
People who earn their money the old fashion way normally know when to cut their losses and get out. They are also intelligent enough to identify the best vehicle to accomplish the task.
Donating this property to Scurry County under the veil of A VALUABLE COMMUNITY ASSET that will ATTRACT FUTURE BUSINESS DEVELOPMENT is pure nonsense.
This donation is in the best interest of the donor group, and yes the golf course can continue operation, but will eventually become another asset subsidized with tax dollars.
I challenge the Commissioners Court to make financial sense of this issue. It is a poor investment of time, effort, and dollars.
If the donor group can overcome skeptism of this issue with proof, then they should receive the proper adulations and thank you that they deserve.
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
In looking at the possibility of the commissioner's court running or in overseeing the running of a golf course, I would ask questions about another "could be" community asset. I am speaking of the coliseum.
Is the coliseum costing the tax payers or is it turning a profit for the tax base? Has this community asset been overseen in such a way that it truly is a benefit to Scurry County? Not merely a marginal asset, but a real benefit?
These are not comments, they are viable questions.
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